Every Carmelite, in living their vocation encounters tension between what is and what might be. …as secular Carmelites are you able to live with that tension?
Can the fact of your living with it transfigure the world? How?
Group #24 responded:
The fact that we are in the world, as God fills our being, is such that what we do lets other people see who God is in our everyday life as long as we let Him work through us. That is so in making breakfast or in working with someone who is having trouble breathing as a respiratory therapist.
In day to day life there is always a tension between wanting ideally to let God work through us and having to strive for that in dealing with other people, and working together with other people, who do not share those values, may even be antagonistic towards Christians, and may not want the same things. Sometimes finding the right balance between the ideal of loving another person and at the same time wanting to be zealous for a client or produce the ideal quality in work, sometime require moment by moment decisions. The right thing to do may only be apparent after the time has passed.
St Therese – allowing the day to bring what it brought. At some point you make a decision, with the best of intentions, and the result may not square with what we think life ought to be, but this has to be left to God.
The Lord makes straight with crooked ways. God’s love flows even if you don’t do things correctly.
Sometimes you just have to let it be and let God decide.
The tension of time is the nature of our life. Those book-ends of time are needed to let God’s Spirit guide us in doing or not doing something. That can transfigure the world. There is a beauty in different things occurring at the same time when in the midst of all that, the Holy Spirit is taking control.
Internally, it is possible to be somewhat at peace amid constant interruptions by phone calls, emails, and people at the door. There is a certain pruning that God is asking in putting us in this tension which is beautiful.
That tension is an awareness of who we want to be, who we are and the wish to let God work in us.
Sometimes you have to stick with tension, and sometimes let it go.
We are in good company, considering that St Paul wrote about this. The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak. Knowing that one is not meeting all the things the order is calling us to (prayer times etc) is transfiguring what we are doing in the world can be a mustard seed. We are building up an artillery warehouse for future spiritual battle in the prayers that we do now. The tension is an offering that we can give toward that spiritual warfare.
Allowing our selves to be transformed is part of what we contribute to transfiguration of the world.
Sometimes instead of being open and listening, we may have a specific thing we want a child to do but the other child wants to do it. In the same way, we sometimes may have something that we want to do for God that He wants someone else to do. Instead, we need to listen to what God wants from us – doing our own work and not doing someone else’s. Sometimes we are doing other people’s work and not doing our own.
Sometimes when one of us needs to do something that she does not want to do, God turns it around. His love and ideas are so much great. “Suit up and show up and then shut up.” No matter how much one does not want to do something, it is important to do what we are called to do and let God work in it.
You have to speak the word so that it can go into our hearts and transform us. When we offer our speaking God’s word, for the transformation of the world, it can change and transfigure.
Life has to be handled in a Carmelite spirit, letting that wisdom and simplicity shine through us in handling the difficulties of life.
We are in the process of becoming who God wants. It is the way it is going to be at this moment. God is not fast. He is love.
Sometimes you have to step back. If something is meant to be, someone will, step forward and do it. God’s work will get done. We need to sometimes get out of the way.
Mother Teresa was a tiny person. God takes those who are the most incapable so that it shows that He is doing the work.
St Therese of Lisieux wrote about accepting who we are with all of our inadequacies and temptations, and accepting that the person God made us to be and wants us to be. It is important to accept God working through those limitations in who He chose for us to be. We are all the people who are incapable, and God uses that to show that He is doing through each of us what He wants to do through us.
Tuesday, August 5, 2008
4th response to 4 of 4
Every Carmelite, in living their vocation encounters tension between what is and what might be. …as secular Carmelites are you able to live with that tension?
Can the fact of your living with it transfigure the world? How?
Group #12 responded:
Stand up and be counted against issues that are against our Church/Christ’s example. Make yourself known as a Carmelite.
Make yourself open and available to the needs of others.
Spiritual warfare beginning within ourselves through prayer, Eucharist – be holy.
Tensions in the work place met with peace and humility, sharing where this comes from and this transforms the world.
Improve self by helping those in need and listening to that call.
My love for Christ and each other we can make a difference in the world (for the glory of God).
Learning that with God all things are possible, through Carmel we learn to step out and trust.
That if we trust our Lord and learn to give the blessings abound, through our knowledge of St Teresa and St John, peace can come out.
By following St Teresa and St John we can overcome the tensions that come into our daily lives. By that example we transfigure the world.
Can the fact of your living with it transfigure the world? How?
Group #12 responded:
Stand up and be counted against issues that are against our Church/Christ’s example. Make yourself known as a Carmelite.
Make yourself open and available to the needs of others.
Spiritual warfare beginning within ourselves through prayer, Eucharist – be holy.
Tensions in the work place met with peace and humility, sharing where this comes from and this transforms the world.
Improve self by helping those in need and listening to that call.
My love for Christ and each other we can make a difference in the world (for the glory of God).
Learning that with God all things are possible, through Carmel we learn to step out and trust.
That if we trust our Lord and learn to give the blessings abound, through our knowledge of St Teresa and St John, peace can come out.
By following St Teresa and St John we can overcome the tensions that come into our daily lives. By that example we transfigure the world.
3rd response to 4 of 4
Every Carmelite, in living their vocation encounters tension between what is and what might be. …as secular Carmelites are you able to live with that tension?
Can the fact of your living with it transfigure the world? How?
Group #8 responded:
As seculars, we must do good works, not just pray. We must learn and follow directions in our Constitutions. Each part of Carmel must support the others. We need to have holy flexibility; follow the Holy Spirit.
2nd response to 4 of 4
Every Carmelite, in living their vocation encounters tension between what is and what might be. …as secular Carmelites are you able to live with that tension?
Can the fact of your living with it transfigure the world? How?
Group #4 responded:
Tension – not always able to carry out our Carmelite duties – daily Mass – Liturgy of the Hours – prayers – do what we can.
Perfection is loving – not perfect
Attributes of Christ
Ask for grace
God is in charge
St Teresa and St John of the Cross
Prayer chair in parish
Material struggle
Tension – good and bad
Allegiance to Christ
Strive for holiness
“Let nothing disturb you” St Teresa of Avila
Burn out – balance
Good example
Patience
Say “no”
Tension in Carmelite communities
Judgmental
Address – outside of community
Thank God
POSITIVE attitude – happy
Chastity – modesty in dress
Can the fact of your living with it transfigure the world? How?
Group #4 responded:
Tension – not always able to carry out our Carmelite duties – daily Mass – Liturgy of the Hours – prayers – do what we can.
Perfection is loving – not perfect
Attributes of Christ
Ask for grace
God is in charge
St Teresa and St John of the Cross
Prayer chair in parish
Material struggle
Tension – good and bad
Allegiance to Christ
Strive for holiness
“Let nothing disturb you” St Teresa of Avila
Burn out – balance
Good example
Patience
Say “no”
Tension in Carmelite communities
Judgmental
Address – outside of community
Thank God
POSITIVE attitude – happy
Chastity – modesty in dress
1st response to 4 of 4
Every Carmelite, in living their vocation encounters tension between what is and what might be. …as secular Carmelites are you able to live with that tension?
Can the fact of your living with it transfigure the world? How?
Group #3 responded:
Remarks: Consecrated life – John Paul II
Tension: What is it?
Liz- liturgy coordinator; constantly ascertain how God is leading to bring people into allegiance to Jesus. 11 masses – why there – wake up people – something more than what they have.
Fact: Living as a member of a religious order in a very secular world. How deals with ads on TV
Ana: secular – not perfect world – good Catholic but does not realize value of spiritual world. Example: group – forward to discuss? Daily mass – Eucharistic minister- sick
Lector – determine if I am to do more – Live with ourselves in peace.
Overwhelming – what can I do? Like Amish – separate self from world – Jesus said to go into the world. Work with person one at a time. Example speaks to others.
Living
Holy ones – giving communion
– people talk badly or criticize – doing too much to be holy
Respect our Lord at consecration – don’t be taking photographs
Able to live with it? Yes and no! How to handle it?
Ed – transfigure world? Yes it does – one person at a time. St Therese in the monastery – smile; nothing bothering her. Why is she always happy? Joy in you – why?
Work in country club as bus boy – worked with pierced tongue – co-worker – a Jewish man. If you were son of God, wouldn’t you sit at the right hand of the Father –
Chronicle – co-worker Jacobson – talked and told him son of Jacob, Grandfather never took him to temple. Race is blessed and chosen people – real understanding.
Saying: where evil abounds, grace abounds even greater-
Transforming with joy – three things that evil/ death – kill, destroy, steal
Don’t let him steal our joy!
Prayer – Name of Jesus
Nancy – a lot of tension – work in elementary with children who have a lot of problems, exhausted.
Don’t feel have a charism – don’t know where I am going. Pray Jesus will be in me. His eyes, mouth, ears… be a good example – people are not pleasant – it is a constant struggle.
Reading – ecstatic – Charity covers all sin – now I will be able to cove sin with charitable works.
Family, children and grandchildren ask God for his grace.
Only healing thing is love – it is the only thing that lasts. Things done with love will go on forever. God’s love will change the world.
Is love a pure love? Ulterior motives? Ask God’s help. Morning offering – all given to God.
Liz – transfigure the world? How? Consumer oriented. If we stop buying, world will come to a standstill.
Poverty, Chastity, Obedience:
Rose you can handle it – gone one week did not show up. God sent him to me to pray for that person – and sends others – now best of friends.
Nancy – more tension forces me into greater prayer. Get down on your knees.
No quick fix – [St Therese] cloistered nuns know everything going on in the world.
Re-prioritize
Simplify
We do not always see success.
Deal with family and people we work with.
Turn off the TV – watch EWTN (some areas do not carry it)
Media – no moral values
Stop shopping
Liz – we need to pray and pray more – what type of prayer? Intercessory prayer – lowest form – nothing accidental – God knows everything – priest scandal – something good will come out of it.
Oh God, my friend is really ill, he is in a lot of pain, I just wanted you to know.
Sometimes the answer is no
We can’t tell God what to do. We want to be united with Him.
Husband diagnosed 2 years ago with cancer – getting anxious.
Let me get on with my life – care giver is my life. Sit with him, hold hands, what I need to do today.
Elephant – rat get out of the river – gets out. Ok – why? I wanted to see if you were wearing my swimming trunks – God bigger than any idea we have of him.
Starving in Africa
Rose – Thailand – only 1 meal
Section I- question
Secular Order is growing faster than the rest of the order – not enough Friars as spiritual assistants.
Solution: start a credential program for seculars to prepare and certify them as Spiritual Assistants.
Can the fact of your living with it transfigure the world? How?
Group #3 responded:
Remarks: Consecrated life – John Paul II
Tension: What is it?
Liz- liturgy coordinator; constantly ascertain how God is leading to bring people into allegiance to Jesus. 11 masses – why there – wake up people – something more than what they have.
Fact: Living as a member of a religious order in a very secular world. How deals with ads on TV
Ana: secular – not perfect world – good Catholic but does not realize value of spiritual world. Example: group – forward to discuss? Daily mass – Eucharistic minister- sick
Lector – determine if I am to do more – Live with ourselves in peace.
Overwhelming – what can I do? Like Amish – separate self from world – Jesus said to go into the world. Work with person one at a time. Example speaks to others.
Living
Holy ones – giving communion
– people talk badly or criticize – doing too much to be holy
Respect our Lord at consecration – don’t be taking photographs
Able to live with it? Yes and no! How to handle it?
Ed – transfigure world? Yes it does – one person at a time. St Therese in the monastery – smile; nothing bothering her. Why is she always happy? Joy in you – why?
Work in country club as bus boy – worked with pierced tongue – co-worker – a Jewish man. If you were son of God, wouldn’t you sit at the right hand of the Father –
Chronicle – co-worker Jacobson – talked and told him son of Jacob, Grandfather never took him to temple. Race is blessed and chosen people – real understanding.
Saying: where evil abounds, grace abounds even greater-
Transforming with joy – three things that evil/ death – kill, destroy, steal
Don’t let him steal our joy!
Prayer – Name of Jesus
Nancy – a lot of tension – work in elementary with children who have a lot of problems, exhausted.
Don’t feel have a charism – don’t know where I am going. Pray Jesus will be in me. His eyes, mouth, ears… be a good example – people are not pleasant – it is a constant struggle.
Reading – ecstatic – Charity covers all sin – now I will be able to cove sin with charitable works.
Family, children and grandchildren ask God for his grace.
Only healing thing is love – it is the only thing that lasts. Things done with love will go on forever. God’s love will change the world.
Is love a pure love? Ulterior motives? Ask God’s help. Morning offering – all given to God.
Liz – transfigure the world? How? Consumer oriented. If we stop buying, world will come to a standstill.
Poverty, Chastity, Obedience:
Rose you can handle it – gone one week did not show up. God sent him to me to pray for that person – and sends others – now best of friends.
Nancy – more tension forces me into greater prayer. Get down on your knees.
No quick fix – [St Therese] cloistered nuns know everything going on in the world.
Re-prioritize
Simplify
We do not always see success.
Deal with family and people we work with.
Turn off the TV – watch EWTN (some areas do not carry it)
Media – no moral values
Stop shopping
Liz – we need to pray and pray more – what type of prayer? Intercessory prayer – lowest form – nothing accidental – God knows everything – priest scandal – something good will come out of it.
Oh God, my friend is really ill, he is in a lot of pain, I just wanted you to know.
Sometimes the answer is no
We can’t tell God what to do. We want to be united with Him.
Husband diagnosed 2 years ago with cancer – getting anxious.
Let me get on with my life – care giver is my life. Sit with him, hold hands, what I need to do today.
Elephant – rat get out of the river – gets out. Ok – why? I wanted to see if you were wearing my swimming trunks – God bigger than any idea we have of him.
Starving in Africa
Rose – Thailand – only 1 meal
Section I- question
Secular Order is growing faster than the rest of the order – not enough Friars as spiritual assistants.
Solution: start a credential program for seculars to prepare and certify them as Spiritual Assistants.
14th response to 3 of 4
Everything that happens in our life is an opportunity for an encounter with God. How do we respond? Do we try to tend towards union with Him?
Group #25 responded:
Need to let people know that these kinds of tension, no matter what they are, to show members positive and creative way to Christ. All different actions, encounter with Christ and let them see how virtue plays roll.
Everything opportunity to unite with God (dealing with other people, etc).
Try to Jesus in everybody – all made in likeness of God.
How do we transform? Teach Lectio – meditation.
Live duality – getting together soft- when walk out door is problem – encounter with God everywhere; not compartmentalized.
Seeing Jesus in person – see that person in Jesus (shift) need to find it.
One of things that helps solve tension is holy hour everyday- tension disappears. If people can see results in life, they will know. Sermon in itself.
Focus on answer instead of problem.
Exposition – time just goes – day goes better – more energy and patience.
If have Christ in you, so peaceful because know have helper.
Br. Lawrence – Practice the Presence of God – found Our Lord at all times – more he knew, simpler he got.
Dream about in sleep – prayers.
Go back to 1st question – secular order growing much faster – different pathways to holiness for laity.
So much negative going on, seculars powerhouse in world.
Grown so much – need formators at all levels – need to be well formed and willing to serve.
Inner desire of people hungry for God. Who will find Carmel because of spirituality and need to be well formed enough to instruct.
Where would we be without nuns or friars? It is essential to have friars and wish had more input of nuns.
Vatican II all about don’t inhibit laity – make them a bigger part and delegate. As Carmelite seculars offer unique opportunities to access public. Friars addressing people who come to well. Seculars in world and offer paved road to well. Community deeper spiritual life – reasons people come. Give Gospel message in world. Let tension begin.
Had guru for 10 years – mysticism
John Paul II – where Eastern spirituality stops, Carmelite spirituality begins.
Plant seeds with individuals – won’t know where going. They seek more and more.
Carmel was by invitation from God (opportunity) and rest is discernment. Safe harbor -Is God’s (not mine).
True for all of us in different ways. Many people don’t even know what Carmelites are or that they exist.
God uses us.
Priest asked “what are Carmelites?”
As Catholics, don’t show faith. Ask people to attend Catholic church. Afraid of crossing boundaries.
People lead very immoral lives. Corporate America. Icons on desk. Anything to invite conversation.
Life is witness.
Likes being a Carmelite. Good life.
OCDS feels like coming home.
Holy Spirit at work.
Group #25 responded:
Need to let people know that these kinds of tension, no matter what they are, to show members positive and creative way to Christ. All different actions, encounter with Christ and let them see how virtue plays roll.
Everything opportunity to unite with God (dealing with other people, etc).
Try to Jesus in everybody – all made in likeness of God.
How do we transform? Teach Lectio – meditation.
Live duality – getting together soft- when walk out door is problem – encounter with God everywhere; not compartmentalized.
Seeing Jesus in person – see that person in Jesus (shift) need to find it.
One of things that helps solve tension is holy hour everyday- tension disappears. If people can see results in life, they will know. Sermon in itself.
Focus on answer instead of problem.
Exposition – time just goes – day goes better – more energy and patience.
If have Christ in you, so peaceful because know have helper.
Br. Lawrence – Practice the Presence of God – found Our Lord at all times – more he knew, simpler he got.
Dream about in sleep – prayers.
Go back to 1st question – secular order growing much faster – different pathways to holiness for laity.
So much negative going on, seculars powerhouse in world.
Grown so much – need formators at all levels – need to be well formed and willing to serve.
Inner desire of people hungry for God. Who will find Carmel because of spirituality and need to be well formed enough to instruct.
Where would we be without nuns or friars? It is essential to have friars and wish had more input of nuns.
Vatican II all about don’t inhibit laity – make them a bigger part and delegate. As Carmelite seculars offer unique opportunities to access public. Friars addressing people who come to well. Seculars in world and offer paved road to well. Community deeper spiritual life – reasons people come. Give Gospel message in world. Let tension begin.
Had guru for 10 years – mysticism
John Paul II – where Eastern spirituality stops, Carmelite spirituality begins.
Plant seeds with individuals – won’t know where going. They seek more and more.
Carmel was by invitation from God (opportunity) and rest is discernment. Safe harbor -Is God’s (not mine).
True for all of us in different ways. Many people don’t even know what Carmelites are or that they exist.
God uses us.
Priest asked “what are Carmelites?”
As Catholics, don’t show faith. Ask people to attend Catholic church. Afraid of crossing boundaries.
People lead very immoral lives. Corporate America. Icons on desk. Anything to invite conversation.
Life is witness.
Likes being a Carmelite. Good life.
OCDS feels like coming home.
Holy Spirit at work.
13th response to 3 of 4
Everything that happens in our life is an opportunity for an encounter with God. How do we respond? Do we try to tend towards union with Him?
Group #23 responded:
Be aware of being silent in busy, noisy world. Get away – take a break – make appointment of time to be silent and in prayer.
Life of love, prayer and service. God will give grace to live Carmelite life.
Promise to God – stay aware of promise made to God, mass, adoration.
Responsibility to bring truth to family – pray for them always.
Be aware of quiet space always. Able to go to meet God even in midst of busy life.
How for us to me Martha and Mary – “give me heart of Mary and hands of Martha” – a prayer said each morning. Acknowledgement
Easier to do devotions (prayers) than bringing apostolate to world – service to nursing home. Pray for family who has own lives – apostolate through church service.
Family very positive influence. Worn scapular since age six. Active in church, visiting nursing home and bring Eucharist – lector, bringing Word and go to charismatic prayer group.
Teach family by example can’t talk to family – lector
Work at hospital for service and rectory, health reasons can’t go to Mass, do hours as a couple.
Work full time in 2 different locations – balance prayer – drive to work, morning prayer at work, meditate hours on weekend, Eucharistic minister, sacristan, usher.
For families set example, words turn to conflict.
Work at church, do everything there at work can’t go to daily mass, do morning and evening prayers, do books for hubby’s business.
Continuing formation. God sees effort – fidelity and faithful - give God what you have. Reading breviary, read lectionary, prayer booklets.
We respond to God by listening to Him and try not to control.
Even in difficulties pray to respond in way – wait with patience
Pray to the Holy Spirit for understanding, listen to Sacred Heart radio to things pleasing to God through the Holy Spirit – wait for God to respond.
As cradle Catholic adhere to Jesus, Mary, etc. – brother converted to Born Again Christians – family feel hurt – pray to God for family, brother and struggle with.
Reverence the readiness of people to accept the truth. People get hungry for whole. Plant seeds. Let God’s word come back in God’s time.
Union with God through mass and adoration.
Parents prayer to holy angels for grown children.
Thank God for what happens. Give pain to God – offer it up for God’s purposes. “God you take over”
All prodigals in some way. See God in present moment.
Hard to control impatience. Can’t control all things in life. “Do best you can” Develop deep gratitude to God for blessings when things are going wrong. Dwell on gratitude. Love, trust, surrender.
Aware of wonders of God, don’t whine because of mental, physical, spiritual pains, give it to God.
Think of everything we have as gift or can never see any relief from pain.
Ask “what am I to learn from this tough situation?”
See humor.
Become prayer warriors, person of prayer at the service of the church.
Group #23 responded:
Be aware of being silent in busy, noisy world. Get away – take a break – make appointment of time to be silent and in prayer.
Life of love, prayer and service. God will give grace to live Carmelite life.
Promise to God – stay aware of promise made to God, mass, adoration.
Responsibility to bring truth to family – pray for them always.
Be aware of quiet space always. Able to go to meet God even in midst of busy life.
How for us to me Martha and Mary – “give me heart of Mary and hands of Martha” – a prayer said each morning. Acknowledgement
Easier to do devotions (prayers) than bringing apostolate to world – service to nursing home. Pray for family who has own lives – apostolate through church service.
Family very positive influence. Worn scapular since age six. Active in church, visiting nursing home and bring Eucharist – lector, bringing Word and go to charismatic prayer group.
Teach family by example can’t talk to family – lector
Work at hospital for service and rectory, health reasons can’t go to Mass, do hours as a couple.
Work full time in 2 different locations – balance prayer – drive to work, morning prayer at work, meditate hours on weekend, Eucharistic minister, sacristan, usher.
For families set example, words turn to conflict.
Work at church, do everything there at work can’t go to daily mass, do morning and evening prayers, do books for hubby’s business.
Continuing formation. God sees effort – fidelity and faithful - give God what you have. Reading breviary, read lectionary, prayer booklets.
We respond to God by listening to Him and try not to control.
Even in difficulties pray to respond in way – wait with patience
Pray to the Holy Spirit for understanding, listen to Sacred Heart radio to things pleasing to God through the Holy Spirit – wait for God to respond.
As cradle Catholic adhere to Jesus, Mary, etc. – brother converted to Born Again Christians – family feel hurt – pray to God for family, brother and struggle with.
Reverence the readiness of people to accept the truth. People get hungry for whole. Plant seeds. Let God’s word come back in God’s time.
Union with God through mass and adoration.
Parents prayer to holy angels for grown children.
Thank God for what happens. Give pain to God – offer it up for God’s purposes. “God you take over”
All prodigals in some way. See God in present moment.
Hard to control impatience. Can’t control all things in life. “Do best you can” Develop deep gratitude to God for blessings when things are going wrong. Dwell on gratitude. Love, trust, surrender.
Aware of wonders of God, don’t whine because of mental, physical, spiritual pains, give it to God.
Think of everything we have as gift or can never see any relief from pain.
Ask “what am I to learn from this tough situation?”
See humor.
Become prayer warriors, person of prayer at the service of the church.
12th response to 3 of 4
Everything that happens in our life is an opportunity for an encounter with God. How do we respond? Do we try to tend towards union with Him?
Group #22 responded:
The Lord’s prayer in many situations of my life has filled me with intense joy, sadness and regret at not fulfilling my obligation in trusting in God to take care of my needs, to give control back to Him. He continues to prune me.
The Lord’s prayer – forgive us our trespasses – reciting the Lord’s prayer morning and evening helps me to be more forgiving to those who are having a bad day and turn on me for reasons unknown. Giving it over to the Lord helps in the way I treat others. Also reading the Way of Perfection helps.
Humbling oneself and being forgiving when you “know you are right”. I feel His presence before the Blessed Sacrament. Saying the Lord’s prayer makes me think of the Father.
Sometimes it’s hard to say the Our Father during trials.
Many struggles in parish community. Parishioners come to me to help with everything going on. (Bereavement ministry) I tell them to pray the Our Father – it’s not your will, you do His will.
Call to follow Christ for our salvation. Do you accept it or reject it? How I answer is my decision. He gives us a chance to follow in Carmel.
In nursing school, there was no desire to go. Would rather pursue something else in medical school. But fulfilled academic requirements, discovered that her mission was to serve others, dealing with physical, spiritual or emotional, was a opportunity to serve the Lord beyond expectations. Serving the Lord comes in different forms.
Encounter God in trials and happy times. Learned abandonment to Him. I’m not in control. It makes life easier. That’s all I can do and that’s how I talk to Him. It’s a way of getting closer to God.
Life changes, caused spiritual life to become deeper. Happier now, can receive sacraments and learning a lot.
Trials in life in family; loss of family member. Because of this I get up early to pray. The Blessed Mother answered the prayer to bring back a family member. Thanks to God the Blessed Mother and all the prayers for family. Prayer very powerful.
Had a stroke and forgot alphabet but not Our Father and Hail Mary – a week after.
Family situation that cannot be forced; prayed to the Blessed Mother for a resolution.
Nothing in our life is a coincidence. We always say “why me?” God says, “why not you?” Later when reflect back, we see how easy it really was. As you go through hardships you get closer to God.
The Lord has used me to ministering to coworkers in the office, either by sending them a particular word or prayer or encountering them in the hallway and just listening – they are grateful to unburden themselves and I give the burden over to the Lord.
Group #22 responded:
The Lord’s prayer in many situations of my life has filled me with intense joy, sadness and regret at not fulfilling my obligation in trusting in God to take care of my needs, to give control back to Him. He continues to prune me.
The Lord’s prayer – forgive us our trespasses – reciting the Lord’s prayer morning and evening helps me to be more forgiving to those who are having a bad day and turn on me for reasons unknown. Giving it over to the Lord helps in the way I treat others. Also reading the Way of Perfection helps.
Humbling oneself and being forgiving when you “know you are right”. I feel His presence before the Blessed Sacrament. Saying the Lord’s prayer makes me think of the Father.
Sometimes it’s hard to say the Our Father during trials.
Many struggles in parish community. Parishioners come to me to help with everything going on. (Bereavement ministry) I tell them to pray the Our Father – it’s not your will, you do His will.
Call to follow Christ for our salvation. Do you accept it or reject it? How I answer is my decision. He gives us a chance to follow in Carmel.
In nursing school, there was no desire to go. Would rather pursue something else in medical school. But fulfilled academic requirements, discovered that her mission was to serve others, dealing with physical, spiritual or emotional, was a opportunity to serve the Lord beyond expectations. Serving the Lord comes in different forms.
Encounter God in trials and happy times. Learned abandonment to Him. I’m not in control. It makes life easier. That’s all I can do and that’s how I talk to Him. It’s a way of getting closer to God.
Life changes, caused spiritual life to become deeper. Happier now, can receive sacraments and learning a lot.
Trials in life in family; loss of family member. Because of this I get up early to pray. The Blessed Mother answered the prayer to bring back a family member. Thanks to God the Blessed Mother and all the prayers for family. Prayer very powerful.
Had a stroke and forgot alphabet but not Our Father and Hail Mary – a week after.
Family situation that cannot be forced; prayed to the Blessed Mother for a resolution.
Nothing in our life is a coincidence. We always say “why me?” God says, “why not you?” Later when reflect back, we see how easy it really was. As you go through hardships you get closer to God.
The Lord has used me to ministering to coworkers in the office, either by sending them a particular word or prayer or encountering them in the hallway and just listening – they are grateful to unburden themselves and I give the burden over to the Lord.
11th response to 3 of 4
Everything that happens in our life is an opportunity for an encounter with God. How do we respond? Do we try to tend towards union with Him?
Group #17 responded:
Similarities – Fr McMahon’s talk – spiritual warfare – must know your faith – life is always and encounter with God – need to be educated Catholics.
Big adventure – dark night of the times and great graces. Encounter with God. Healing experience – just God. Everything in life is an opportunity for encounter with God. What is our first response? If not tending toward union then what? What do you want to learn from this? Go with the flow – let God love you. Need to listen to God – turn off the other noise.
Tending towards Union – inviting others toward God (to Mass etc)
Pray and speak! Become a conduit for the Lord. Need to remain in the presence of God. Take situations back to prayer – challenges and tensions.
Transformation – thanksgiving. No coincidences. Mission to communion – seeking communion. Peace be with you, it is I, do not be afraid!
Being led by the Holy Spirit – being guided – being receptive. Need passion for faith and support the priests, learn from all experiences.
Group #17 responded:
Similarities – Fr McMahon’s talk – spiritual warfare – must know your faith – life is always and encounter with God – need to be educated Catholics.
Big adventure – dark night of the times and great graces. Encounter with God. Healing experience – just God. Everything in life is an opportunity for encounter with God. What is our first response? If not tending toward union then what? What do you want to learn from this? Go with the flow – let God love you. Need to listen to God – turn off the other noise.
Tending towards Union – inviting others toward God (to Mass etc)
Pray and speak! Become a conduit for the Lord. Need to remain in the presence of God. Take situations back to prayer – challenges and tensions.
Transformation – thanksgiving. No coincidences. Mission to communion – seeking communion. Peace be with you, it is I, do not be afraid!
Being led by the Holy Spirit – being guided – being receptive. Need passion for faith and support the priests, learn from all experiences.
10th response to 3 of 4
Everything that happens in our life is an opportunity for an encounter with God. How do we respond? Do we try to tend towards union with Him?
Group #16 responded:
The 6 M’s help.
When I meet people not in sync with my faith level, I like to talk about God, watch EWTN, do one of the 6 M’s – others find other relaxing activities
- confronted when asked if there was anything not religious in her life.
– has wiccans at work. Supervising (government) librarian at library.
– politics – abortion, euthanasia, stem cell research, etc. Can hardly get into discussion.
–human reason vs God’s reason – recognize I’m in war; no negativity if you’re educator – faith based – feel tension –
–1st thing Mother Teresa’s sisters do is meditation; if we don’t pray we don’t have anything to give.
–life is always an encounter with God.
– Could there be instructions at homily mass? Now many people don’t know the faith.
–Darkness can draw you in so need to keep eyes on the light!
– Raises questions of how can we change our initial response to one of seeking union?
–God, what do you want me to learn from this? What am I supposed to do with this? – take it to prayer–
– In Carmelite contemplation – sit and listen to God.
– If I sit, I can listen – often don’t until make effort to still self.
– Story of conversion when a person was invited to a spiritual conference and now is a daily communicant.
– People who don’t know church, don’t know Eucharist.
– Take it back to prayer, can lead to union and gratitude.
– In faith there’s no comfort zone, always being thrown off balance.
– Baptized 10 years ago. Before critical, etc – after, more receptive.
– Need intellectual assent but also need personal relationship with God.
– Being formed and informed so we can bring others.
Group #16 responded:
The 6 M’s help.
When I meet people not in sync with my faith level, I like to talk about God, watch EWTN, do one of the 6 M’s – others find other relaxing activities
- confronted when asked if there was anything not religious in her life.
– has wiccans at work. Supervising (government) librarian at library.
– politics – abortion, euthanasia, stem cell research, etc. Can hardly get into discussion.
–human reason vs God’s reason – recognize I’m in war; no negativity if you’re educator – faith based – feel tension –
–1st thing Mother Teresa’s sisters do is meditation; if we don’t pray we don’t have anything to give.
–life is always an encounter with God.
– Could there be instructions at homily mass? Now many people don’t know the faith.
–Darkness can draw you in so need to keep eyes on the light!
– Raises questions of how can we change our initial response to one of seeking union?
–God, what do you want me to learn from this? What am I supposed to do with this? – take it to prayer–
– In Carmelite contemplation – sit and listen to God.
– If I sit, I can listen – often don’t until make effort to still self.
– Story of conversion when a person was invited to a spiritual conference and now is a daily communicant.
– People who don’t know church, don’t know Eucharist.
– Take it back to prayer, can lead to union and gratitude.
– In faith there’s no comfort zone, always being thrown off balance.
– Baptized 10 years ago. Before critical, etc – after, more receptive.
– Need intellectual assent but also need personal relationship with God.
– Being formed and informed so we can bring others.
9th response to 3 of 4
Everything that happens in our life is an opportunity for an encounter with God. How do we respond? Do we try to tend towards union with Him?
Group #14 responded:
Last 10 years searching for spiritual fulfillment – found that in Carmelites. Had cancer.
In my community, that’s where I found my peace, where I want to grow.
My challenge: when someone makes me angry, how not to push them away.
St John “where there isn’t love, put love.”
I found helpful in difficult situation: I found that God had allowed that – he was there all the time.
I have difficulty in seeing Christ in each person. Find it happens gradually, as I get older.
Good question. How do you see Jesus Christ in someone you hate?
Love doesn’t hate.
Mother Teresa: some face of Christ more difficult to look at.
Reed of God by Caryll Houselander – good book in relating to seeing Jesus in everyone.
It’s faith – seeing with the eyes of faith.
Especially the homeless. My mother: saw them feed homeless “that could be Christ”
We live where there’s always people holding signs [homeless]. One time husband and I disagreed about it so he allotted me an amount to do with what I wanted. A big black guy came up and asked me for money. I was self-righteous, shaking finger at him because he smoked, but I gave him the $20. But I felt so ashamed afterwards.
One tension: thinking I can control someone else. When I got married (25 years ago) I said to myself “I do not want to change my wife” but unconsciously I tried to. It’s the control that is difficult. The tension to want someone else to do what you want.
A very human situation.
Way of Perfection – St Teresa says you’re not in control.
What about tending toward union with God?
Eucharistic Adoration each week, 3 AM Tuesday.
What about workplace?
20 years I was in hospital ministry. Took each patient to Jesus in the tabernacle.
I choose 3 AM adoration because that’s time when family abuse occurs.
Father was speaking about Japanese scientist who tried to photograph water crystals as they were forming. He exposed words and music to them. When his words were beautiful, beautiful crystal formed – opposite also true.
We enter his courts with praise and thanksgiving.
It’s only God that does that [union with God].
I believe I am in union when receiving Holy Communion.
[discussion of spiritual marriage]
We must remain open to God. Purity of intentions is important. Don’t rely on feelings.
We should be like the woman who implored the king – at 3 AM go and “bug” Jesus.
Whether one has Eucharistic adoration or not, all can give thanksgiving after mass.
Mystical Body of Christ is important.
We are being in him and through him.
Important to me: don’t worry about the speck in my neighbor’s eye…but the timber in my own.
Group #14 responded:
Last 10 years searching for spiritual fulfillment – found that in Carmelites. Had cancer.
In my community, that’s where I found my peace, where I want to grow.
My challenge: when someone makes me angry, how not to push them away.
St John “where there isn’t love, put love.”
I found helpful in difficult situation: I found that God had allowed that – he was there all the time.
I have difficulty in seeing Christ in each person. Find it happens gradually, as I get older.
Good question. How do you see Jesus Christ in someone you hate?
Love doesn’t hate.
Mother Teresa: some face of Christ more difficult to look at.
Reed of God by Caryll Houselander – good book in relating to seeing Jesus in everyone.
It’s faith – seeing with the eyes of faith.
Especially the homeless. My mother: saw them feed homeless “that could be Christ”
We live where there’s always people holding signs [homeless]. One time husband and I disagreed about it so he allotted me an amount to do with what I wanted. A big black guy came up and asked me for money. I was self-righteous, shaking finger at him because he smoked, but I gave him the $20. But I felt so ashamed afterwards.
One tension: thinking I can control someone else. When I got married (25 years ago) I said to myself “I do not want to change my wife” but unconsciously I tried to. It’s the control that is difficult. The tension to want someone else to do what you want.
A very human situation.
Way of Perfection – St Teresa says you’re not in control.
What about tending toward union with God?
Eucharistic Adoration each week, 3 AM Tuesday.
What about workplace?
20 years I was in hospital ministry. Took each patient to Jesus in the tabernacle.
I choose 3 AM adoration because that’s time when family abuse occurs.
Father was speaking about Japanese scientist who tried to photograph water crystals as they were forming. He exposed words and music to them. When his words were beautiful, beautiful crystal formed – opposite also true.
We enter his courts with praise and thanksgiving.
It’s only God that does that [union with God].
I believe I am in union when receiving Holy Communion.
[discussion of spiritual marriage]
We must remain open to God. Purity of intentions is important. Don’t rely on feelings.
We should be like the woman who implored the king – at 3 AM go and “bug” Jesus.
Whether one has Eucharistic adoration or not, all can give thanksgiving after mass.
Mystical Body of Christ is important.
We are being in him and through him.
Important to me: don’t worry about the speck in my neighbor’s eye…but the timber in my own.
8th response to 3 of 4
Everything that happens in our life is an opportunity for an encounter with God. How do we respond? Do we try to tend towards union with Him?
Group #8 responded:
Every moment is an encounter with God and we must learn to respond to it. We must live with awareness, as sister said. We must constantly monitor ourselves.
Teach others the value of suffering. Every trial is a blessing, making us dependent on God. Make others understand we care. Share these questions with their respective communities. We can’t be passive; we must be dynamic. Can no longer be just listeners, must be partakers.
Would like to share the results of Round Table Discussions with all other groups.
Group #8 responded:
Every moment is an encounter with God and we must learn to respond to it. We must live with awareness, as sister said. We must constantly monitor ourselves.
Teach others the value of suffering. Every trial is a blessing, making us dependent on God. Make others understand we care. Share these questions with their respective communities. We can’t be passive; we must be dynamic. Can no longer be just listeners, must be partakers.
Would like to share the results of Round Table Discussions with all other groups.
7th response to 3 of 4
Everything that happens in our life is an opportunity for an encounter with God. How do we respond? Do we try to tend towards union with Him?
Group #7 responded:
We are living in the world.
Even though tensions still love those around you.
The example you give.
Sometimes you have to speak. Your reactions
Our prayers for people and situations we encounter
We can pray for world situations
Pray when hear a siren
Taking communion to nursing home residents, bringing that grace of Eucharist.
We don’t know what example we’ve been to others.
Do and speak what is right.
God is patient with everyone – he doesn’t live in time
We need to have and give the love and mercy of God.
Visual given by friend: creative tension on either end makes the cross. We are united with Christ on the cross, outstretched arms the visual. When the world sees us united with the cross willingly.
How – the cross transformed the world in a mysterious way – in our lives it’s also a mystery. Sometimes we feel like we aren’t transforming the world but messing things up. St Therese totally unknown nun during life has transformed the world.
Do everything with love – we can all do that.
Mother Teresa took St Therese’s teaching and put it in the world.
We don’t all have big crosses. Friend said “don’t you know it’s the splinters of the cross that hurt”
God gives us more than we can handle so we need Him and the saints to help us carry it.
Two rough rocks polish each other. Lit candle in window – others look to that light- as the world looks to us – light of the world – Jesus.
Couple gives their grandchildren catechism class homework. 7 year old granddaughter brought Grandma to church.
Group #7 responded:
We are living in the world.
Even though tensions still love those around you.
The example you give.
Sometimes you have to speak. Your reactions
Our prayers for people and situations we encounter
We can pray for world situations
Pray when hear a siren
Taking communion to nursing home residents, bringing that grace of Eucharist.
We don’t know what example we’ve been to others.
Do and speak what is right.
God is patient with everyone – he doesn’t live in time
We need to have and give the love and mercy of God.
Visual given by friend: creative tension on either end makes the cross. We are united with Christ on the cross, outstretched arms the visual. When the world sees us united with the cross willingly.
How – the cross transformed the world in a mysterious way – in our lives it’s also a mystery. Sometimes we feel like we aren’t transforming the world but messing things up. St Therese totally unknown nun during life has transformed the world.
Do everything with love – we can all do that.
Mother Teresa took St Therese’s teaching and put it in the world.
We don’t all have big crosses. Friend said “don’t you know it’s the splinters of the cross that hurt”
God gives us more than we can handle so we need Him and the saints to help us carry it.
Two rough rocks polish each other. Lit candle in window – others look to that light- as the world looks to us – light of the world – Jesus.
Couple gives their grandchildren catechism class homework. 7 year old granddaughter brought Grandma to church.
6th response to 3 of 4
Everything that happens in our life is an opportunity for an encounter with God. How do we respond? Do we try to tend towards union with Him?
Group #5 responded:
Secret of sanctity? That the first movement of our heart be that of gratitude.
Faith – looking in retrospect – seeing God’s blessings.
Know ourselves interiorly – negative feelings, - we can give people encouragement.
Mystery of daily living is the challenge.
Keep our eyes on Jesus.
Group #5 responded:
Secret of sanctity? That the first movement of our heart be that of gratitude.
Faith – looking in retrospect – seeing God’s blessings.
Know ourselves interiorly – negative feelings, - we can give people encouragement.
Mystery of daily living is the challenge.
Keep our eyes on Jesus.
5th response to 3 of 4
Group #25 responded:
All of our predecessors have had to grapple with holy creative tension, such as that expressed in the Flaming Arrow. What is it in your life?
Trial of life grapple with to overcome self to seek union with Christ. Family issues, health, difficulties in vocation and life. Difficult to separate secular vs faith. God vs world as solution to problem – lose if choose world as moves us away from God. If choose God, Holy Spirit aides in decisions.
When to say a “holy” no to someone/something in order to say “yes” to God. Not to take on too much.
Work – but have some responsibilities as in each moment of day and finding Christ in daily life.
Easier to convert as world not present – more free to interact with God.
More docility which leads to joy –
In convent easier to get close to God.
To get here all paid – wait for phones, room reservation cancelled – because of Carmel had grace of calm.
Tension – keeping life we profess to live (Gospel life) – trying to live more perfectly and seriously Gospel life – all have tension – sometimes more than others – if away from God lose docility (faith, hope and love & bring to others). If we go where we want, God put in second place. Great family as Carmelites, we’re not doing alone. Tension to get up, grades, work done, etc. Privileged life. We’ve all been invited to banquet - what causes us not to respond?
Since young and impatient (7 kids) – now that retired and can focus more on God – so much peace. If don’t have God, have nothing. When came in, professed in 2 years – so much easier and less tension.
Tense when out of order – prayers don’t get said, etc. anxiety – normal response.
Necessary not going away, learn to live with it – it is our relationship-creative
Have to have tension to have balance.
Jacob wrestling – saw face of God – limped away – wound remained
Didn’t go away – how to learn to live with tension – learn to surrender out of love, My God, my mother –
How what we’re considering affects secular community?
All of our predecessors have had to grapple with holy creative tension, such as that expressed in the Flaming Arrow. What is it in your life?
Trial of life grapple with to overcome self to seek union with Christ. Family issues, health, difficulties in vocation and life. Difficult to separate secular vs faith. God vs world as solution to problem – lose if choose world as moves us away from God. If choose God, Holy Spirit aides in decisions.
When to say a “holy” no to someone/something in order to say “yes” to God. Not to take on too much.
Work – but have some responsibilities as in each moment of day and finding Christ in daily life.
Easier to convert as world not present – more free to interact with God.
More docility which leads to joy –
In convent easier to get close to God.
To get here all paid – wait for phones, room reservation cancelled – because of Carmel had grace of calm.
Tension – keeping life we profess to live (Gospel life) – trying to live more perfectly and seriously Gospel life – all have tension – sometimes more than others – if away from God lose docility (faith, hope and love & bring to others). If we go where we want, God put in second place. Great family as Carmelites, we’re not doing alone. Tension to get up, grades, work done, etc. Privileged life. We’ve all been invited to banquet - what causes us not to respond?
Since young and impatient (7 kids) – now that retired and can focus more on God – so much peace. If don’t have God, have nothing. When came in, professed in 2 years – so much easier and less tension.
Tense when out of order – prayers don’t get said, etc. anxiety – normal response.
Necessary not going away, learn to live with it – it is our relationship-creative
Have to have tension to have balance.
Jacob wrestling – saw face of God – limped away – wound remained
Didn’t go away – how to learn to live with tension – learn to surrender out of love, My God, my mother –
How what we’re considering affects secular community?
4th response to 3 of 4
Group #16 and #17 responded:
All of our predecessors have had to grapple with holy creative tension, such as that expressed in the Flaming Arrow. What is it in your life?
#16
Tension-
Morning Prayer over oatmeal
Work – 45 minute commute (Rosary and Divine Mercy Chaplet)
Lunch – adoration (30 minutes) before the Blessed Sacrament
5:30 Mass (if not earlier)
Home – relax with wine and dinner – then Evening Prayer if lucky
TV or some relax
Dinner – Night Prayer
If not Evening Prayer – Night Prayer together.
#17
Difficult to do Carmelite tasks – married with children and working full time.
Evangelization – reading the Bible – talking about God. Tension to bring out holiness in others. Interacting with non-Catholics, fallen away and those who don’t follow Catholic teaching.
All of our predecessors have had to grapple with holy creative tension, such as that expressed in the Flaming Arrow. What is it in your life?
#16
Tension-
Morning Prayer over oatmeal
Work – 45 minute commute (Rosary and Divine Mercy Chaplet)
Lunch – adoration (30 minutes) before the Blessed Sacrament
5:30 Mass (if not earlier)
Home – relax with wine and dinner – then Evening Prayer if lucky
TV or some relax
Dinner – Night Prayer
If not Evening Prayer – Night Prayer together.
#17
Difficult to do Carmelite tasks – married with children and working full time.
Evangelization – reading the Bible – talking about God. Tension to bring out holiness in others. Interacting with non-Catholics, fallen away and those who don’t follow Catholic teaching.
3rd response to 3 of 4
Group #14 responded:
All of our predecessors have had to grapple with holy creative tension, such as that expressed in the Flaming Arrow. What is it in your life?
Tension is working in the world and the effects of the world (TV, movies) vs. call to contemplation. Takes me away from focus on the spiritual life.
Obvious as OCDS, trying to balance lives in this world, illness, family, etc. trying to live contemplative life with these other factors. The sense of charity is the primary contemplative action. Also we’re called to self-forgetfulness – what the Lord is calling us to in the present moment.
Isn’t this escapism?
No – telephone may ring during private prayer.
Also when someone is not well in your household. I am the breadwinner, caring care of ill husband, OCDS aspirant – forced to take time for myself.
Can you find silence if you’re in the mall? As silence governed by the cell or can you find it outside? I think so.
I think you can pray anywhere.
We should be a “living prayer” This is being connected within yourself and pray for others.
Know a lady who prays through the obituaries.
Praying Morning Prayers is being “living prayer” [in that it’s a daily self-offering] I wore the image of Our Lady of Guadalupe in mall the other day and Hispanic woman noticed it. I gave it to her. Forgetfulness.
Distractions – a blessing or curse
I offer them to God – he changed water into wine – he can change distractions into prayer.
It’s the purity of prayer involved in offering all to God.
In community there can be tension if there are “Peters and Pauls” or if there is favorites. Sometimes one must be a peacemaker within a community.
How to be peacemaker: be respectful to all, listen well.
As president in a council meeting, I had been very uncharitable, so I apologized- truth, honesty, forgiveness (seven times seven) is what’s needed.
I sought a Carmelite group for five years, then found a group of only two.
It’s good to not have complete agreement – diversity is good.
[citing St John’s Precautions] don’t worry about dissention – go to the one in authority if need be.
Tension between prayer and apostolate – it should be natural outpouring of prayer.
All of our predecessors have had to grapple with holy creative tension, such as that expressed in the Flaming Arrow. What is it in your life?
Tension is working in the world and the effects of the world (TV, movies) vs. call to contemplation. Takes me away from focus on the spiritual life.
Obvious as OCDS, trying to balance lives in this world, illness, family, etc. trying to live contemplative life with these other factors. The sense of charity is the primary contemplative action. Also we’re called to self-forgetfulness – what the Lord is calling us to in the present moment.
Isn’t this escapism?
No – telephone may ring during private prayer.
Also when someone is not well in your household. I am the breadwinner, caring care of ill husband, OCDS aspirant – forced to take time for myself.
Can you find silence if you’re in the mall? As silence governed by the cell or can you find it outside? I think so.
I think you can pray anywhere.
We should be a “living prayer” This is being connected within yourself and pray for others.
Know a lady who prays through the obituaries.
Praying Morning Prayers is being “living prayer” [in that it’s a daily self-offering] I wore the image of Our Lady of Guadalupe in mall the other day and Hispanic woman noticed it. I gave it to her. Forgetfulness.
Distractions – a blessing or curse
I offer them to God – he changed water into wine – he can change distractions into prayer.
It’s the purity of prayer involved in offering all to God.
In community there can be tension if there are “Peters and Pauls” or if there is favorites. Sometimes one must be a peacemaker within a community.
How to be peacemaker: be respectful to all, listen well.
As president in a council meeting, I had been very uncharitable, so I apologized- truth, honesty, forgiveness (seven times seven) is what’s needed.
I sought a Carmelite group for five years, then found a group of only two.
It’s good to not have complete agreement – diversity is good.
[citing St John’s Precautions] don’t worry about dissention – go to the one in authority if need be.
Tension between prayer and apostolate – it should be natural outpouring of prayer.
2nd response to 3 of 4
Group #7 responded:
All of our predecessors have had to grapple with holy creative tension, such as that expressed in the Flaming Arrow. What is it in your life?
The tension of contemplative vs. active.
The stress of everyday life, busy in parish, family, etc.
OCD wants us to be active and to give – serving others. That’s what Jesus came to do – to serve others.
Interior Castle “our prayer gives strength and certitude to our daily lives. OCDS helps us keep focus on details of daily life but to “be Christ to others”
Whatever we do we want to live in the presence of God.
Need that tension keep us in need of God.
Keeps life balanced.
Do the prayer first to have the strength.
It’s hard to love others at times God gives the strength.
The tension of keeping the rule try each day
Always in His presence
Use prudent discretion in all we do. Tendency of scrupulosity helped by the OCDS life of prayer.
Duty may take precedence.
Couples – in the beginning husband took care of children, then husband joined. The blessing of sharing faith and Carmel as a couple.
Tension changes as stage of life changes. We are forced to change.
Accepting changes important. Overcome stones in the path with the Lord.
All of our predecessors have had to grapple with holy creative tension, such as that expressed in the Flaming Arrow. What is it in your life?
The tension of contemplative vs. active.
The stress of everyday life, busy in parish, family, etc.
OCD wants us to be active and to give – serving others. That’s what Jesus came to do – to serve others.
Interior Castle “our prayer gives strength and certitude to our daily lives. OCDS helps us keep focus on details of daily life but to “be Christ to others”
Whatever we do we want to live in the presence of God.
Need that tension keep us in need of God.
Keeps life balanced.
Do the prayer first to have the strength.
It’s hard to love others at times God gives the strength.
The tension of keeping the rule try each day
Always in His presence
Use prudent discretion in all we do. Tendency of scrupulosity helped by the OCDS life of prayer.
Duty may take precedence.
Couples – in the beginning husband took care of children, then husband joined. The blessing of sharing faith and Carmel as a couple.
Tension changes as stage of life changes. We are forced to change.
Accepting changes important. Overcome stones in the path with the Lord.
1st response to 3 of 4
Group #5 responded:
All of our predecessors have had to grapple with holy creative tension, such as that expressed in the Flaming Arrow. What is it in your life?
All of our experiences matter.
Mendicants close to urban growth vs contemplative life.
History of order – examples – Mary and Martha
Transition - Hermits vs mendicant (alms, travelers)
What is it in your life?
Started as isolate – now community
Self discipline, humility, sensitive to ordinary
Living – listen to others – don’t jump in with advice – we can make people dependant – don’t enable
We enter Carmel with our own reasons – new guidelines and formation guidelines can be more work – struggle. Christ the center – obligations, family, other things – need prudence. Surrender to God’s will.
Surrender and humility – be open – listen – work vs contemplative prayer
So many charities wanting money
Protestant vs Catholic charities
Catholics help everyone – discernment about who is needy.
Carmelites need to learn each others needs in communities.
Evangelizations vs discerning Carmelite vocations. Do they want to develop their spirituality in this order?
Holy flexibility – learn – unlearn – relearn…is the person teachable, obedient
Do they belong to community?
Self analyses – comfort vs change
Putting ourselves out there - OCDS
Pray for vocations
Summery
Discernment, obedience, adaptability
All of our predecessors have had to grapple with holy creative tension, such as that expressed in the Flaming Arrow. What is it in your life?
All of our experiences matter.
Mendicants close to urban growth vs contemplative life.
History of order – examples – Mary and Martha
Transition - Hermits vs mendicant (alms, travelers)
What is it in your life?
Started as isolate – now community
Self discipline, humility, sensitive to ordinary
Living – listen to others – don’t jump in with advice – we can make people dependant – don’t enable
We enter Carmel with our own reasons – new guidelines and formation guidelines can be more work – struggle. Christ the center – obligations, family, other things – need prudence. Surrender to God’s will.
Surrender and humility – be open – listen – work vs contemplative prayer
So many charities wanting money
Protestant vs Catholic charities
Catholics help everyone – discernment about who is needy.
Carmelites need to learn each others needs in communities.
Evangelizations vs discerning Carmelite vocations. Do they want to develop their spirituality in this order?
Holy flexibility – learn – unlearn – relearn…is the person teachable, obedient
Do they belong to community?
Self analyses – comfort vs change
Putting ourselves out there - OCDS
Pray for vocations
Summery
Discernment, obedience, adaptability
10th response to 2 of 4
What is the reality of being an OCDS in contrast to the fantasy world some live in (which is to pray and simply receive, letting someone else do the work. Who’s going to do the dishes, by the way?)
Group #19 responded:
We need to have the courage to make a stand. First it is necessary to understand the problems of the world – evil. Our stand requires gentle understanding through love of others.
There are many paths within Carmel – mission, cloistered, parish, etc.
We have a job to do – prayer, readings – to help the universal church.
We cannot let a handful of people be active in our secular communities. It is our responsibility in community to bring all people along and become active participants in community and learn to take roles willingly accepting each others weaknesses in love. As God chooses to bring us closer to him, he changes us in a different way. That affects all the people we come in contact with. In going forward in the grace of our vocation. Example given of the experience of after Pentecost and the apostles. They changed. Just so we can change during the course of our vocation.
Keep the 10 commandments.
If you really love God, the Trinity gives you the grace through the Holy Spirit and we need to be conscious this grace is going through you which gives great joy. Act on what the Holy Spirit prompts you to do. Say yes. We don’t really know one another but must take the challenge.
Group #19 responded:
We need to have the courage to make a stand. First it is necessary to understand the problems of the world – evil. Our stand requires gentle understanding through love of others.
There are many paths within Carmel – mission, cloistered, parish, etc.
We have a job to do – prayer, readings – to help the universal church.
We cannot let a handful of people be active in our secular communities. It is our responsibility in community to bring all people along and become active participants in community and learn to take roles willingly accepting each others weaknesses in love. As God chooses to bring us closer to him, he changes us in a different way. That affects all the people we come in contact with. In going forward in the grace of our vocation. Example given of the experience of after Pentecost and the apostles. They changed. Just so we can change during the course of our vocation.
Keep the 10 commandments.
If you really love God, the Trinity gives you the grace through the Holy Spirit and we need to be conscious this grace is going through you which gives great joy. Act on what the Holy Spirit prompts you to do. Say yes. We don’t really know one another but must take the challenge.
9th response to 2 of 4
What is the reality of being an OCDS in contrast to the fantasy world some live in (which is to pray and simply receive, letting someone else do the work. Who’s going to do the dishes, by the way?)
Group #18 responded:
Aspirants can have preconceived notions about what Carmel is. But you learn through formation. Every time you meditate and read you learn something different.
Form committees: liturgy – food – telephone – infirm – divine office – each member participates.
You can’t spend all your time praying as a secular. You have family obligations, work, etc, you can follow Br Lawrence and make those actions a prayer.
Structure allows you to focus. Be faithful to meditation.
Live the beatitudes by actively participating.
Practice spiritual communion.
Group #18 responded:
Aspirants can have preconceived notions about what Carmel is. But you learn through formation. Every time you meditate and read you learn something different.
Form committees: liturgy – food – telephone – infirm – divine office – each member participates.
You can’t spend all your time praying as a secular. You have family obligations, work, etc, you can follow Br Lawrence and make those actions a prayer.
Structure allows you to focus. Be faithful to meditation.
Live the beatitudes by actively participating.
Practice spiritual communion.
8th response to 2 of 4
What is the reality of being an OCDS in contrast to the fantasy world some live in (which is to pray and simply receive, letting someone else do the work. Who’s going to do the dishes, by the way?)
Group #15 responded:
Some have said “just get the scapular and then leave”. People get upset but still must remember all are family, each has a vocation. Distractions are real and must be not worried about that but continue to work for being with God. Sometimes we get discouraged, but we must continue in each moment to work to improve.
Fantasy worlds – outside Carmel and outside Church – many don’t understand and it is hurtful.
The other fantasy is within OCDS – poor formation can cause misapprehension – once formed – don’t have to come to meetings anymore – abandonment, obedience, etc.
People enter order thinking it’s an escape. Just pray and I’ll get something out of it. It’s all about me. In reality we pray for God’s glory and the church.
Some joint organization to say – look who I am- that is the fantasy.
Need true humility, fraternal charity.
Transmittal of spiritual love that is our work.
Reality is being humble “I came to serve – not to be served”
Help people to pray – some don’t know how.
The fantasy is that we work hard interiorly deeply to clear the impediments to God being completely in charge of our hearts and minds – we must progress to unity with Him.
Even if those around us think we are holy or too holy.
Group #15 responded:
Some have said “just get the scapular and then leave”. People get upset but still must remember all are family, each has a vocation. Distractions are real and must be not worried about that but continue to work for being with God. Sometimes we get discouraged, but we must continue in each moment to work to improve.
Fantasy worlds – outside Carmel and outside Church – many don’t understand and it is hurtful.
The other fantasy is within OCDS – poor formation can cause misapprehension – once formed – don’t have to come to meetings anymore – abandonment, obedience, etc.
People enter order thinking it’s an escape. Just pray and I’ll get something out of it. It’s all about me. In reality we pray for God’s glory and the church.
Some joint organization to say – look who I am- that is the fantasy.
Need true humility, fraternal charity.
Transmittal of spiritual love that is our work.
Reality is being humble “I came to serve – not to be served”
Help people to pray – some don’t know how.
The fantasy is that we work hard interiorly deeply to clear the impediments to God being completely in charge of our hearts and minds – we must progress to unity with Him.
Even if those around us think we are holy or too holy.
7th response to 2 of 4
What is the reality of being an OCDS in contrast to the fantasy world some live in (which is to pray and simply receive, letting someone else do the work. Who’s going to do the dishes, by the way?)
Group #2 responded:
Martha and Mary- need a balance between Martha and Mary. We should be sharing what we learn, teach people to pray. People are hungry for spirituality. Need to help people grown in their spirituality. The fruit of prayer is good works!
Group #2 responded:
Martha and Mary- need a balance between Martha and Mary. We should be sharing what we learn, teach people to pray. People are hungry for spirituality. Need to help people grown in their spirituality. The fruit of prayer is good works!
6th response to 2 of 4
What is the reality of being an OCDS in contrast to the fantasy world some live in (which is to pray and simply receive, letting someone else do the work. Who’s going to do the dishes, by the way?)
Group #1 responded:
This brings to mind Martha and Mary. “The Fruit of Prayer is good works”. Need a balance between Martha and Mary. We should be sharing what we learn in Carmel. Teach people to pray. People in the church are hungry for more spirituality. We should share what we learn. Carmelites need to help people grow in their spirituality.
Group #1 responded:
This brings to mind Martha and Mary. “The Fruit of Prayer is good works”. Need a balance between Martha and Mary. We should be sharing what we learn in Carmel. Teach people to pray. People in the church are hungry for more spirituality. We should share what we learn. Carmelites need to help people grow in their spirituality.
5th response to 2 of 4
What does it mean to go forward in fidelity to the grace of our vocation?
Group #19 responded:
Fidelity is key. We keep changing. Grace – the grace of God that calls us. Contrary to normal routine – we are challenged.
Vocation is to become Christ. Synergy of union with my will to the will of God. We are to be transformed in the ordinariness of our lives. We are to be open and allow ourselves to be open.
Forward – we are continually learning how to go on. Prayer – liturgy
We are gaining grace as we go. We are headed to become more Christ-like. Do we need to do anything? We need to empty ourselves of our worries and attachments. I can commune with God that way in any one particular moment. The Glory of God is not something to capture. How can we be of benefit to the rest of the Catholic community-we are all one. Do we get enough benefit to our prayers? Love. No difference between giving and receiving. The Holy Spirit is working through you. Charity, Joy & Peace. Experience joy through charity, then you have the peace of Christ. As a Carmelite – we’re giving to our fellow man in prayer. Our rule talks about solitude and prayer – when we give ourselves to God, the Holy Spirit acts through us. Everyday is a holy struggle. Do we reject graces with our lack of listening? We must pay attention to that dialog. We need to be faithful to the scriptures to be able to open ourselves to God. The Constitutions give us the tools to open ourselves to graces to go forward in our vocation. We must be prepared by our Carmelite community to function in the Church. To be faithful to our vocation requires faithful support of the magisterium.
Group #19 responded:
Fidelity is key. We keep changing. Grace – the grace of God that calls us. Contrary to normal routine – we are challenged.
Vocation is to become Christ. Synergy of union with my will to the will of God. We are to be transformed in the ordinariness of our lives. We are to be open and allow ourselves to be open.
Forward – we are continually learning how to go on. Prayer – liturgy
We are gaining grace as we go. We are headed to become more Christ-like. Do we need to do anything? We need to empty ourselves of our worries and attachments. I can commune with God that way in any one particular moment. The Glory of God is not something to capture. How can we be of benefit to the rest of the Catholic community-we are all one. Do we get enough benefit to our prayers? Love. No difference between giving and receiving. The Holy Spirit is working through you. Charity, Joy & Peace. Experience joy through charity, then you have the peace of Christ. As a Carmelite – we’re giving to our fellow man in prayer. Our rule talks about solitude and prayer – when we give ourselves to God, the Holy Spirit acts through us. Everyday is a holy struggle. Do we reject graces with our lack of listening? We must pay attention to that dialog. We need to be faithful to the scriptures to be able to open ourselves to God. The Constitutions give us the tools to open ourselves to graces to go forward in our vocation. We must be prepared by our Carmelite community to function in the Church. To be faithful to our vocation requires faithful support of the magisterium.
4th response to 2 of 4
What does it mean to go forward in fidelity to the grace of our vocation?
Group #18 responded:
Vocation – we are called to holiness. We have the Constitutions but need God’s grace to fulfill them. We have to avoid putting up barriers to God’s grace.
To walk in the Spirit is to walk in the Word.
Carry out our vocation in a personal way. Each secular has a different gift to bring to the community.
Adhere to and embrace evangelical counsels.
Ultimate purpose salvation of souls. Responding to our vocation we respond to God’s call.
Pray for unity. Change is hard for all people. Change is an opportunity for growth as an individual and as a community.
Obedience is essential to our vocation.
Apostolate: no one dies alone – Anchorage speakers to go into parishes to speak on Carmel - Second Harvest.
Group #18 responded:
Vocation – we are called to holiness. We have the Constitutions but need God’s grace to fulfill them. We have to avoid putting up barriers to God’s grace.
To walk in the Spirit is to walk in the Word.
Carry out our vocation in a personal way. Each secular has a different gift to bring to the community.
Adhere to and embrace evangelical counsels.
Ultimate purpose salvation of souls. Responding to our vocation we respond to God’s call.
Pray for unity. Change is hard for all people. Change is an opportunity for growth as an individual and as a community.
Obedience is essential to our vocation.
Apostolate: no one dies alone – Anchorage speakers to go into parishes to speak on Carmel - Second Harvest.
3rd response to 2 of 4
What does it mean to go forward in fidelity to the grace of our vocation?
Group #15 responded:
Fidelity to stay faithful -
Important that people understand this is a vocation! Very important!
So many distractions, we must be faithful to following the Lord and continue to pray deeply, then we will be a light to others. Must search for God continuously…regardless of the distractions…we must live the vocation to the end of this life.
Every state of life has a special grace given to it. The grace is a gift which must be accepted. We must fight for the time for quiet prayer.
We must keep moving forward and accept our new Constitutions with grace. We must stay faithful to prayer.
God will give us the grace to carry out our vocation if we keep to His rule.
Truth, grace prayer and cooperation – vocation is gift from God – responsibility is to be true to our vocation.
Going forward can be a struggle – especially if things are very different – God will give the grace to be faithful.
Quiet prayer – so hard to find - keep to prayer and magisterium according to St Teresa and St John of the Cross.
Group #15 responded:
Fidelity to stay faithful -
Important that people understand this is a vocation! Very important!
So many distractions, we must be faithful to following the Lord and continue to pray deeply, then we will be a light to others. Must search for God continuously…regardless of the distractions…we must live the vocation to the end of this life.
Every state of life has a special grace given to it. The grace is a gift which must be accepted. We must fight for the time for quiet prayer.
We must keep moving forward and accept our new Constitutions with grace. We must stay faithful to prayer.
God will give us the grace to carry out our vocation if we keep to His rule.
Truth, grace prayer and cooperation – vocation is gift from God – responsibility is to be true to our vocation.
Going forward can be a struggle – especially if things are very different – God will give the grace to be faithful.
Quiet prayer – so hard to find - keep to prayer and magisterium according to St Teresa and St John of the Cross.
2nd response to 2 of 4
What does it mean to go forward in fidelity to the grace of our vocation?
Group #2 responded:
What does fidelity mean=faithfulness, loyalty, perseverance – be loyal to Jesus.
-John of the Cross – Dark Night is when he wrote the most sublime poetry .
-St Therese said her vocation was just to love. Just to love God and love individuals even those that are difficult.
God said love your neighbor. We can never love God enough. Love is our vocation.
The importance of attendance: This forms community – to love our brothers and sisters – getting to know them and learn from them.
Our vocation is to love God and be loved by God. We are his and are a creation of God. God has willed us into existence. Our fidelity is to have a friendship with God and give back that friendship back to the world. We are the body of Christ – which is a relationship, and deep.
We need to know Jesus not just know about him. Read the Word. Read the Gospels. Get to know Jesus intimately. Know him and love him. Once you know him you love him.
Need to strengthen our community. Use the meeting time to strengthen our communities. Learn the Rule of St Albert – possibly change the format of formation to meditate on it and learn better. The Rule is a commentary on our way of life.
Attendance is showing fidelity and it is a commitment. Seems to be important to limit the size of community so that the leaders can get to know the members.
Grace – The order exists for the church and members belong to the order. Members need to be able to go outside their comfort level.
Importance of prayer – The fruit of prayer is good works.
Grace – be open to the grace, be faithful, and persevere.
Aspirants need to know the Carmelite journey is both personal and for the Church
Group #2 responded:
What does fidelity mean=faithfulness, loyalty, perseverance – be loyal to Jesus.
-John of the Cross – Dark Night is when he wrote the most sublime poetry .
-St Therese said her vocation was just to love. Just to love God and love individuals even those that are difficult.
God said love your neighbor. We can never love God enough. Love is our vocation.
The importance of attendance: This forms community – to love our brothers and sisters – getting to know them and learn from them.
Our vocation is to love God and be loved by God. We are his and are a creation of God. God has willed us into existence. Our fidelity is to have a friendship with God and give back that friendship back to the world. We are the body of Christ – which is a relationship, and deep.
We need to know Jesus not just know about him. Read the Word. Read the Gospels. Get to know Jesus intimately. Know him and love him. Once you know him you love him.
Need to strengthen our community. Use the meeting time to strengthen our communities. Learn the Rule of St Albert – possibly change the format of formation to meditate on it and learn better. The Rule is a commentary on our way of life.
Attendance is showing fidelity and it is a commitment. Seems to be important to limit the size of community so that the leaders can get to know the members.
Grace – The order exists for the church and members belong to the order. Members need to be able to go outside their comfort level.
Importance of prayer – The fruit of prayer is good works.
Grace – be open to the grace, be faithful, and persevere.
Aspirants need to know the Carmelite journey is both personal and for the Church
1st response to 2 of 4
What does it mean to go forward in fidelity to the grace of our vocation?
Group #1 responded:
Go forward in faithfulness and loyalty to God’s love. Our vocation is to love God and to love one another. This love is to build community. To build community we need to be strict on attendance. Attendance enables the building of community so that members can know one another and if they know one another they will love each other. The community needs to freely learn the Rule of St. Albert. Put into formation to read and meditate on the Rule daily. The Rule is a commentary on our way of life. Aspirants need to know the Carmelite Journey is both personal and for the church.
Group #1 responded:
Go forward in faithfulness and loyalty to God’s love. Our vocation is to love God and to love one another. This love is to build community. To build community we need to be strict on attendance. Attendance enables the building of community so that members can know one another and if they know one another they will love each other. The community needs to freely learn the Rule of St. Albert. Put into formation to read and meditate on the Rule daily. The Rule is a commentary on our way of life. Aspirants need to know the Carmelite Journey is both personal and for the church.
10th response to 1 of 4
Group # 26 responded:
Have we begun to prepare for it? And what more might we do?
Friars are called upon much – financially support them. With spiritual assistants – more open communication.
Make Carmelite Order more known and draw more Friars and Nuns, because if seculars grow we will need more of them to assist us.
Before we went to the Provincial Delegate if a problem arose, we need to take care of our own problems if we elect people to office carefully. Concentrate in the future – being available to feed the hunger of others spirituality, with Carmelite spirituality.
Noted professional degree people at our Congress and they have carried their Carmelite spirituality out of our communities into the businesses. Have an attitude of prayer to prepare for this ministry.
Break the image of “contemplative prayer” to be self and solitude only or it’s not Carmelite. It cannot be too active or too social.
Good leaders to inform that communities are a prayer in action. Cloisters pray we are their living prayer. It is very Teresian to work, work, work.
Bring in the young people to Carmelite spirituality. There is a need for more vocations.
We need more priests but it will happen in God’s time. Our job is to evangelize.
It is all new but we are preparing and trying especially through our new Constitutions.
As long our changes come from prayer, led by the Spirit it will lead us to good change. Learn to recognize business for business sake – tires us out – be careful, that is the devil dividing us.
Divide large communities so that the apostolate can be “one” and focused. Maintain a “family unity”. A large community tends to have differing interests and apostolate. It works well for small communities (60 or less).
Bring in retired parish priests as spiritual assistants to divide the communities.
Take out the inactive from the rolls.
Do all in charity and for the good of the community.
Have we begun to prepare for it? And what more might we do?
Friars are called upon much – financially support them. With spiritual assistants – more open communication.
Make Carmelite Order more known and draw more Friars and Nuns, because if seculars grow we will need more of them to assist us.
Before we went to the Provincial Delegate if a problem arose, we need to take care of our own problems if we elect people to office carefully. Concentrate in the future – being available to feed the hunger of others spirituality, with Carmelite spirituality.
Noted professional degree people at our Congress and they have carried their Carmelite spirituality out of our communities into the businesses. Have an attitude of prayer to prepare for this ministry.
Break the image of “contemplative prayer” to be self and solitude only or it’s not Carmelite. It cannot be too active or too social.
Good leaders to inform that communities are a prayer in action. Cloisters pray we are their living prayer. It is very Teresian to work, work, work.
Bring in the young people to Carmelite spirituality. There is a need for more vocations.
We need more priests but it will happen in God’s time. Our job is to evangelize.
It is all new but we are preparing and trying especially through our new Constitutions.
As long our changes come from prayer, led by the Spirit it will lead us to good change. Learn to recognize business for business sake – tires us out – be careful, that is the devil dividing us.
Divide large communities so that the apostolate can be “one” and focused. Maintain a “family unity”. A large community tends to have differing interests and apostolate. It works well for small communities (60 or less).
Bring in retired parish priests as spiritual assistants to divide the communities.
Take out the inactive from the rolls.
Do all in charity and for the good of the community.
8th response to 1 of 4
Group # 21 responded:
Have we begun to prepare for it? And what more might we do?
- Be cautious about taking in members just to have more bodies. They should be well educated in Carmelite spirituality and vocation should be discerned very carefully. We’re as strong as the weakest link.
- The impact is positive provided we remain strong in our vocations. This may help society return to God.
- The impact comes from within – our families and communities. The greatest impact starts there and then carries out to the world.
- Smaller communities reflect closer family-style cohesiveness. It’s important to get to know the individuals in your community. Formation guidelines help to discern vocation.
- Are we prepared to step up when we’re lacking priests for guidance?
- Less vocations will weaken the support of the seculars.
- We have raised 2 – 3 generations of “know-nothing” Catholics. New members need to thoroughly know their catechism, and then we can form them as Carmelites. Discernment of vocations is very important.
- The wisdom of God confounds the “wisdom” of the world. We convert the world by living our faith and with love. The way to do it is by penance, also.
- There should be a more stream-lined way for O. Carm. Seculars to become OCDS. There may be more Hispanic OCDS vocations (they can read the poetry of St John of the Cross). There should be more workshops for formators to do their ministry.
Have we begun to prepare for it? And what more might we do?
- Be cautious about taking in members just to have more bodies. They should be well educated in Carmelite spirituality and vocation should be discerned very carefully. We’re as strong as the weakest link.
- The impact is positive provided we remain strong in our vocations. This may help society return to God.
- The impact comes from within – our families and communities. The greatest impact starts there and then carries out to the world.
- Smaller communities reflect closer family-style cohesiveness. It’s important to get to know the individuals in your community. Formation guidelines help to discern vocation.
- Are we prepared to step up when we’re lacking priests for guidance?
- Less vocations will weaken the support of the seculars.
- We have raised 2 – 3 generations of “know-nothing” Catholics. New members need to thoroughly know their catechism, and then we can form them as Carmelites. Discernment of vocations is very important.
- The wisdom of God confounds the “wisdom” of the world. We convert the world by living our faith and with love. The way to do it is by penance, also.
- There should be a more stream-lined way for O. Carm. Seculars to become OCDS. There may be more Hispanic OCDS vocations (they can read the poetry of St John of the Cross). There should be more workshops for formators to do their ministry.
9th response to 1 of 4
Group # 20 responded:
Have we begun to prepare for it? And what more might we do?
Impact will be a more personal and spiritual relationship with the priests.
Role models in community so the kids will discern any calling for vocation
Need more spiritual directors.
We can prepare through prayers and encouragement to our youth.
We are going to grow but in growing will lose intimacy of relationship.
Prefer a smaller community.
Active role in the parish to talk about vocation. Pray for increase in priestly vocations.
Be active models in our family and live our lives according to the gospel, we should not forget our Carmelite vocation of prayer in this spiritual warfare.
- Study Carmelite teachings, adoration and attending Mass, reading sacred scriptures.
- Need more Carmelite priests to guide us in our journey; spiritual directors.
- Secular Carmelites have the obligation for apostolic work, charity in action.
- The secular order is growing because it’s the desire of the Blessed Mother for the secular order to grow to support our religious brothers and sisters, not only spiritually but also materially.
- Be a good example to everyone, as God has said, “Love one another as I have loved you.”
Have we begun to prepare for it? And what more might we do?
Impact will be a more personal and spiritual relationship with the priests.
Role models in community so the kids will discern any calling for vocation
Need more spiritual directors.
We can prepare through prayers and encouragement to our youth.
We are going to grow but in growing will lose intimacy of relationship.
Prefer a smaller community.
Active role in the parish to talk about vocation. Pray for increase in priestly vocations.
Be active models in our family and live our lives according to the gospel, we should not forget our Carmelite vocation of prayer in this spiritual warfare.
- Study Carmelite teachings, adoration and attending Mass, reading sacred scriptures.
- Need more Carmelite priests to guide us in our journey; spiritual directors.
- Secular Carmelites have the obligation for apostolic work, charity in action.
- The secular order is growing because it’s the desire of the Blessed Mother for the secular order to grow to support our religious brothers and sisters, not only spiritually but also materially.
- Be a good example to everyone, as God has said, “Love one another as I have loved you.”
Addition to 6th response to 1 of 4
Group # 11 responded:
Have we begun to prepare for it? And what more might we do?
The new formation guidelines are a powerful preparation that is happening.
Guiding those in formation through having them in groups and communities.
Helping laity discern whether they are called to Carmel.
Preparing by calling the isolates into communities.
We need more bonding opportunity with the community.
We need more spiritual directors!!
There should be smaller numbers in community.
Incorporate more of isolate study in combination with monthly meeting.
Give training to third order members for spiritual directing so they can be spiritual directors.
We are preparing as we are organizing on the regional and national level.
Have the Brothers go to community or groups to give occasional teaching.
Assign a priest or brother to each community.
Close down groups that are not Carmel…They are more like prayer groups.
Have we begun to prepare for it? And what more might we do?
The new formation guidelines are a powerful preparation that is happening.
Guiding those in formation through having them in groups and communities.
Helping laity discern whether they are called to Carmel.
Preparing by calling the isolates into communities.
We need more bonding opportunity with the community.
We need more spiritual directors!!
There should be smaller numbers in community.
Incorporate more of isolate study in combination with monthly meeting.
Give training to third order members for spiritual directing so they can be spiritual directors.
We are preparing as we are organizing on the regional and national level.
Have the Brothers go to community or groups to give occasional teaching.
Assign a priest or brother to each community.
Close down groups that are not Carmel…They are more like prayer groups.
Addition to 3rd response to 1 of 4
Group # 8 responded
Have we begun to prepare for it? And what more might we do?
What is our group apostolate?
We need greater community development.
Have social time 1st (if kept on spiritual plane) to help develop community. Opportunity to ask for special prayers from community members.
Learn to help others in a loving, spiritual way.
Have we begun to prepare for it? And what more might we do?
What is our group apostolate?
We need greater community development.
Have social time 1st (if kept on spiritual plane) to help develop community. Opportunity to ask for special prayers from community members.
Learn to help others in a loving, spiritual way.
7th response to 1 of 4
Group # 13 responded:
Not enough Friars – our men to become deacons.
Encourage young men. Carmelite life is not being promoted in families. Generally go more public.
Change being as we grow – with our legislation, we go out to communities and update on what’s going on. Go to the community and bring info, help and reach out to others.
Carmelite life is not yet known – suggest have discussion and studies. Put in bulletin and invite people, have Carmelite priest talk about it.
Agree and like to say as not becoming independent but taking on more responsibility. Make sure we are more committed to our Constitutions. We need to center in on them and people in formation understand and know them. We may have to govern ourselves.
Friars are giving us more freedom as we becoming independence for OCDS is new responsibility is so much greater.
Look at ourselves and grow deeper into our own spirituality. Put more effort into our goal union with Christ.
God will reveal more and more to us – what we are to be.
As we move into it – communities will have to come together more.
If have so few priests or priests not in Teresian Spirituality – we who are more established may have to go out to communities and help form them.
Lumen Gentium – universal call to holiness, Pope Benedict felt Vatican II just now implemented. Don’t think call has gone out or that people feel it’s their call. We take promise/vow – take message it is humble to turn to Lord and be holy. We looking at documents and I think Holy Spirit is preparing us to live it and take it to the world. We must be messengers of the church.
Abortion – 9 million in U.S. How many would have been priests, souls are gone. Family unit where vocations were nourished, this has been completely attacked. Family unit is not nourishing vocations.
So I see the Lord using lay people, through Carmel, building up his army, and priests need to know we are coming up in numbers to encourage.
Holy Spirit is growing and guiding us. We are salt of earth and in his army.
More active lay people, Holy Spirit works through whoever is there, regardless of story be it abortion, etc – all wounded people. We do ministry, priests do sacraments.
We will be God’s army, we are doing what priests and nuns have done, we are called to be sacrament.
Sacrament is sign and we called to be in the world but not of the world. There is trend 60’s down. Vatican II God is preparing us. Like the Israelite trim us down and something good happens. He wants our fidelity to our charism. We change beginning with ourselves. Our families, as parents we need teach our children. Fidelity and do best in everyplace we go and God do rest. We must be sacrament.
Pray – follow our vocation to prayer, we follow His will.
Faithful to our commitments and communities. Go to meetings, some don’t come to meeting and share with communities.
Need to discern vocations.
Lots of members older and not able to come. Pray for vocations in our communities. Responsibility to be the best we can be and maintain it.
Keep in touch with those who are older and can’t come.
How can we reach out to younger generation? 20’s-30’s How can we attract them? Yet everything we have is so alive and full of life.
People have to be informed about the order. Put in bulletins, diocesan newsletter. RCIA are taught basics of teachings.
Ignorance of Catholic faith. 5-10% only know what faith is. No sisters to teach like in the past. Greatest gift is to pray because this is so big.
Children without baptism – without married in church. Love them as they are.
We as church are not filling gaps they need. Be faithful to our vocation. By example-
People at the time of reform looking for spirituality not for church. The Holy Spirit brought about the reform.
Impact will be the renewal of the Church. Silence and Solitude -> wisdom-
Sometimes the wisest thing we can do is be patient. Carmel brings wisdom that comes from the silence and solitude.
People see God in you.
By our example we will touch lives. We have to pray for family, friends.
We are witnesses by our lives.
Congresses are wonderful – we are family. To love and be loved, it is here.
Families don’t pray – why? Watch TV, so many distractions.
I know many things but I know nothing.
Not enough Friars – our men to become deacons.
Encourage young men. Carmelite life is not being promoted in families. Generally go more public.
Change being as we grow – with our legislation, we go out to communities and update on what’s going on. Go to the community and bring info, help and reach out to others.
Carmelite life is not yet known – suggest have discussion and studies. Put in bulletin and invite people, have Carmelite priest talk about it.
Agree and like to say as not becoming independent but taking on more responsibility. Make sure we are more committed to our Constitutions. We need to center in on them and people in formation understand and know them. We may have to govern ourselves.
Friars are giving us more freedom as we becoming independence for OCDS is new responsibility is so much greater.
Look at ourselves and grow deeper into our own spirituality. Put more effort into our goal union with Christ.
God will reveal more and more to us – what we are to be.
As we move into it – communities will have to come together more.
If have so few priests or priests not in Teresian Spirituality – we who are more established may have to go out to communities and help form them.
Lumen Gentium – universal call to holiness, Pope Benedict felt Vatican II just now implemented. Don’t think call has gone out or that people feel it’s their call. We take promise/vow – take message it is humble to turn to Lord and be holy. We looking at documents and I think Holy Spirit is preparing us to live it and take it to the world. We must be messengers of the church.
Abortion – 9 million in U.S. How many would have been priests, souls are gone. Family unit where vocations were nourished, this has been completely attacked. Family unit is not nourishing vocations.
So I see the Lord using lay people, through Carmel, building up his army, and priests need to know we are coming up in numbers to encourage.
Holy Spirit is growing and guiding us. We are salt of earth and in his army.
More active lay people, Holy Spirit works through whoever is there, regardless of story be it abortion, etc – all wounded people. We do ministry, priests do sacraments.
We will be God’s army, we are doing what priests and nuns have done, we are called to be sacrament.
Sacrament is sign and we called to be in the world but not of the world. There is trend 60’s down. Vatican II God is preparing us. Like the Israelite trim us down and something good happens. He wants our fidelity to our charism. We change beginning with ourselves. Our families, as parents we need teach our children. Fidelity and do best in everyplace we go and God do rest. We must be sacrament.
Pray – follow our vocation to prayer, we follow His will.
Faithful to our commitments and communities. Go to meetings, some don’t come to meeting and share with communities.
Need to discern vocations.
Lots of members older and not able to come. Pray for vocations in our communities. Responsibility to be the best we can be and maintain it.
Keep in touch with those who are older and can’t come.
How can we reach out to younger generation? 20’s-30’s How can we attract them? Yet everything we have is so alive and full of life.
People have to be informed about the order. Put in bulletins, diocesan newsletter. RCIA are taught basics of teachings.
Ignorance of Catholic faith. 5-10% only know what faith is. No sisters to teach like in the past. Greatest gift is to pray because this is so big.
Children without baptism – without married in church. Love them as they are.
We as church are not filling gaps they need. Be faithful to our vocation. By example-
People at the time of reform looking for spirituality not for church. The Holy Spirit brought about the reform.
Impact will be the renewal of the Church. Silence and Solitude -> wisdom-
Sometimes the wisest thing we can do is be patient. Carmel brings wisdom that comes from the silence and solitude.
People see God in you.
By our example we will touch lives. We have to pray for family, friends.
We are witnesses by our lives.
Congresses are wonderful – we are family. To love and be loved, it is here.
Families don’t pray – why? Watch TV, so many distractions.
I know many things but I know nothing.
6th response to 1 of 4
Group # 11 responded:
We will be a bridge between laity and the Orders.
The Order will grow because of the times we live in and we will impact the world.
We will be able to help us all be together in retreats.
Bring healing through “community” – God’s idea and concept of community.
We will be more visible in the church and draw more into spiritual ways of living in secular world.
We will draw more young.
We will go places the nuns and priests can’t go and we will spread the word of the Gospel there.
We will be living out the call of Vatican II for the involvement of adults in the church.
We will be a bridge between laity and the Orders.
The Order will grow because of the times we live in and we will impact the world.
We will be able to help us all be together in retreats.
Bring healing through “community” – God’s idea and concept of community.
We will be more visible in the church and draw more into spiritual ways of living in secular world.
We will draw more young.
We will go places the nuns and priests can’t go and we will spread the word of the Gospel there.
We will be living out the call of Vatican II for the involvement of adults in the church.
5th response to 1 of 4
Group # 10 responded:
How will we impact the order?
New emphasis on Apostolate – World, Order, etc.
Focus will be to evangelize/invite lay people into the order.
Encourage Carmelite vocations. Take over what Friars can do. Become interdependent to help non-Carmelite priests.
Stressful – eventful
We will have a different role to play. A lot of Seculars are unprepared to be in leadership. Larger role in Apostolate for Seculars- Would like to see a smooth collaboration- Statutes are a big step forward to maturity and responsibility.
Hunger for spirituality. We are doing our Apostolate through prayer. Approach people with love. Know what you believe.
Lack of spiritual assistants – we have to assume responsibility. It is possible to have a Secular life with God in the equation.
Lay people are themselves to be the best they can be. Live a genuine life – speaks loudly to people. The guidelines are important in formation.
Taking responsibility in Order and apostolate
Move from a bake sale mentality to people who can organize retreats. We need to be well trained and grounded in Carmelite Spirituality. Be grounded in prayer.
Put on a Carmelite play, use the arts.
This was done and the preparation is good formation.
Formation is very important, and the unification of basics are formulized and also the on-going formation for Definitives are important.
Enriched by beginning the process.
Relics of Therese had a huge impact on people. What things could we do to draw people?
Some communities reach out to get vocations.
In the movement of new things – Secular Apostolate – vocations happen.
What is God saying about the numbers?
We need to trust God; we are at the beginning of something new.
How will we impact the order?
New emphasis on Apostolate – World, Order, etc.
Focus will be to evangelize/invite lay people into the order.
Encourage Carmelite vocations. Take over what Friars can do. Become interdependent to help non-Carmelite priests.
Stressful – eventful
We will have a different role to play. A lot of Seculars are unprepared to be in leadership. Larger role in Apostolate for Seculars- Would like to see a smooth collaboration- Statutes are a big step forward to maturity and responsibility.
Hunger for spirituality. We are doing our Apostolate through prayer. Approach people with love. Know what you believe.
Lack of spiritual assistants – we have to assume responsibility. It is possible to have a Secular life with God in the equation.
Lay people are themselves to be the best they can be. Live a genuine life – speaks loudly to people. The guidelines are important in formation.
Taking responsibility in Order and apostolate
Move from a bake sale mentality to people who can organize retreats. We need to be well trained and grounded in Carmelite Spirituality. Be grounded in prayer.
Put on a Carmelite play, use the arts.
This was done and the preparation is good formation.
Formation is very important, and the unification of basics are formulized and also the on-going formation for Definitives are important.
Enriched by beginning the process.
Relics of Therese had a huge impact on people. What things could we do to draw people?
Some communities reach out to get vocations.
In the movement of new things – Secular Apostolate – vocations happen.
What is God saying about the numbers?
We need to trust God; we are at the beginning of something new.
4th response to 1 of 4
Group # 9 responded:
When we receive the word of God through contemplation, we remove the mountains and bring light to others. We should do everything with love and be a loving model to others. We have to look at the humanity of Christ and Mary and to be nurturers to others before we will be able to evangelize others.
When we receive the word of God through contemplation, we remove the mountains and bring light to others. We should do everything with love and be a loving model to others. We have to look at the humanity of Christ and Mary and to be nurturers to others before we will be able to evangelize others.
3rd response to 1 of 4
Group # 8 responded
What will this impact be? What would you like it to be? Have we begun?
OCDS going to get larger. Holy Spirit making us larger. Our charism, carried into the world, will make us a better world. Our main job is to bring Christ to the world. Great war now between good and evil. We must bring the Lord to others, each in his/her own way.
Information, inspiration -> wisdom
We can bring the charism of Carmel to others, bringing the sense of the inner and outer self to become one, bringing them peace,
Give Carmelite Charism to others through good works ie visiting sick, holy communion to others.
What will this impact be? What would you like it to be? Have we begun?
OCDS going to get larger. Holy Spirit making us larger. Our charism, carried into the world, will make us a better world. Our main job is to bring Christ to the world. Great war now between good and evil. We must bring the Lord to others, each in his/her own way.
Information, inspiration -> wisdom
We can bring the charism of Carmel to others, bringing the sense of the inner and outer self to become one, bringing them peace,
Give Carmelite Charism to others through good works ie visiting sick, holy communion to others.
2nd response to 1 of 4
Group #7 responded:
Keeps photo of Carmelite brothers on her computer to remind her to pray for them and vocations.
What is the impact of great growth of OCDS?
Creates a need for more priests.
Provide vocations from our families.
Bring Carmelite Spirituality to parishes – service.
Influences our sharing, teaching, etc.
Some people don’t know what a OCDS Congress is.
Meeting and taking back to our group.
We could help inform others about Secular Order. Educate others especially younger people.
Physically help the OCD Friars – ie- cleaning chapel, financial support, support Uganda Mission.
Many of us don’t have Carmelite Friars near.
Pray for vocations.
What might we do to prepare?
The systemizing of formation is a great help. Reminder of prayer being 1st in our vocation is vital. We were drawn to Carmel because of Rule and commitment, must continuing to foster that.
Secular Dominicans don’t seem to have the community we have.
Approval of formation guidelines - we are training grounds for spiritual life –ie- needed in parishes
Pope John Paul II’s father kept telling him he should be a priest. Seeds must be planted.
Keeps photo of Carmelite brothers on her computer to remind her to pray for them and vocations.
What is the impact of great growth of OCDS?
Creates a need for more priests.
Provide vocations from our families.
Bring Carmelite Spirituality to parishes – service.
Influences our sharing, teaching, etc.
Some people don’t know what a OCDS Congress is.
Meeting and taking back to our group.
We could help inform others about Secular Order. Educate others especially younger people.
Physically help the OCD Friars – ie- cleaning chapel, financial support, support Uganda Mission.
Many of us don’t have Carmelite Friars near.
Pray for vocations.
What might we do to prepare?
The systemizing of formation is a great help. Reminder of prayer being 1st in our vocation is vital. We were drawn to Carmel because of Rule and commitment, must continuing to foster that.
Secular Dominicans don’t seem to have the community we have.
Approval of formation guidelines - we are training grounds for spiritual life –ie- needed in parishes
Pope John Paul II’s father kept telling him he should be a priest. Seeds must be planted.
1st response to 1 of 4
Group #6 responded:
Impact – wonderful or chaotic –
Vocation identity and properly formed = bright future
If just time passes with candidates moved along on the conveyer belt – the future is less bright.
Growth – there is no formal screening or training for formators or councilors.
We will have growing pains.
We are not a club.
Vocation – union with the Lord – growth in holiness – must keep eyes on what holiness is – at junctures, way to assess how people are doing.
Are person’s to add – are they participating, are they keeping up. Are you keeping up with mental prayer and the liturgy of the hours – daily mass – get to Mass with intentionality?
Hard times may be coming –
Evangelization is tool for future – bring in new life.
We are now breathing with 1 lung, need both, need to bring in Eastern church. Big explosion in seculars – just a spark now but will be bigger as fold expands in church. Secular groups in infancy-
We may “drop the cross” but pick it up again.
We must have prayer to keep it together.
Mass is highlight of the day. Stay close to the Eucharist.
We need closeness to our charism – prayer and to Mary – we are her Order.
Seculars/Laity will sustain the church.
The foundation: support friars and religious – the light of future generations.
What about great growth but then loss of members after promises? It not numbers but souls.
Every member must reach out and be an example to young people – evangelization again. Vocations to the Order from these young people.
Need Discalced group in Spanish – (participant from Tucson)
Was asked to start group in 1985.
That they have opportunity to live in community (6 live together and pray 7 times a day and study/work etc – have apostolate to church)
Mexican community and other cultural communities be drawn into Carmel. Need to get to younger children.
What to do – how we prepare:
- we seculars are more and more being asked to be autonomous and to be “adults” in the order – continue that process.
- Training (more) for formatters (Peggy Wilkerson tools?)
- Succession planning
- Churches need to be more open to Carmelite spirituality – strengthen
Lay deaconate for formatters-
Groups that can’t rely on friars coming in get set of tapes or class for deacons that are in training – they can apply this toward their training.
Have in-depth retreat for group – on Carmelite Spirituality.
How to get parish pastors to support Carmelites spirituality especially in Spanish community.
Need to have mentors – to mediate dropouts and learning for new persons.
Perhaps a definitive member is paired with a “prayer buddy” at the time of transition to novice.
Draw youth into Carmel – through spirituality.
Impact – wonderful or chaotic –
Vocation identity and properly formed = bright future
If just time passes with candidates moved along on the conveyer belt – the future is less bright.
Growth – there is no formal screening or training for formators or councilors.
We will have growing pains.
We are not a club.
Vocation – union with the Lord – growth in holiness – must keep eyes on what holiness is – at junctures, way to assess how people are doing.
Are person’s to add – are they participating, are they keeping up. Are you keeping up with mental prayer and the liturgy of the hours – daily mass – get to Mass with intentionality?
Hard times may be coming –
Evangelization is tool for future – bring in new life.
We are now breathing with 1 lung, need both, need to bring in Eastern church. Big explosion in seculars – just a spark now but will be bigger as fold expands in church. Secular groups in infancy-
We may “drop the cross” but pick it up again.
We must have prayer to keep it together.
Mass is highlight of the day. Stay close to the Eucharist.
We need closeness to our charism – prayer and to Mary – we are her Order.
Seculars/Laity will sustain the church.
The foundation: support friars and religious – the light of future generations.
What about great growth but then loss of members after promises? It not numbers but souls.
Every member must reach out and be an example to young people – evangelization again. Vocations to the Order from these young people.
Need Discalced group in Spanish – (participant from Tucson)
Was asked to start group in 1985.
That they have opportunity to live in community (6 live together and pray 7 times a day and study/work etc – have apostolate to church)
Mexican community and other cultural communities be drawn into Carmel. Need to get to younger children.
What to do – how we prepare:
- we seculars are more and more being asked to be autonomous and to be “adults” in the order – continue that process.
- Training (more) for formatters (Peggy Wilkerson tools?)
- Succession planning
- Churches need to be more open to Carmelite spirituality – strengthen
Lay deaconate for formatters-
Groups that can’t rely on friars coming in get set of tapes or class for deacons that are in training – they can apply this toward their training.
Have in-depth retreat for group – on Carmelite Spirituality.
How to get parish pastors to support Carmelites spirituality especially in Spanish community.
Need to have mentors – to mediate dropouts and learning for new persons.
Perhaps a definitive member is paired with a “prayer buddy” at the time of transition to novice.
Draw youth into Carmel – through spirituality.
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